He should then sue them for copy right infringements.

The Berlin crowd sound like they're being a bit daft, but the Dutch crowd may have a legitimate complaint if the relevant individual is selling an app that carries out its tasks by placing an extra load on their servers. Not sure why the copyright to timetables is being protected at such lengths - perhaps their legal team have suggested copyright protection as the best means to prevent 3rd party sites/apps from scraping data from their publicly accessible database? (In which case I'm curious as to why they decided against redrafting the terms of use for the site and database to include a clause whereby only official tools may be used to access the database).

Does giving wide access to timetables result in more or less use of trains? And does the train operator's revenue come from timetables, or from train tickets? I'm just askin'

So what, they're going to stop every passenger with an IPhone, search their phone for the app and delete it if found? Or refuse to transport such passengers?

that so many bodies like BVG and NS have their heads so far up their own corporate arses.

Of course, the fact that they both appear to be developing or releasing their own 'versions' of these apps has absolutely no bearing on the matter whatsoever.

Does it?

They should embrace the individuals who made these applications, not hinder them.

Are you kidding. Sure it would make life easier for the customer, thus making their core business more desirable and boosting profits. But, they'd also be allowing others to make money on something they couldn't create even if they tried... that's giving stuff away. Now we can't have that.

"Handy" app..... as in das deutcher werd "handy" fur ein mobil telefon.

Oh! How we laffed.

I could use firefox (or a paid-for browser) to access the Dutch timetables. Would that be a 3rd party app scraping data from a publically available database? I would say yes.

Whats the difference between that and a more-focussed app?

Here in West Yorkshire, Metro, the local transport authority, have a service called YourNextBus, which allows a passenger to text the number of bus stop to a five figure phone number to get the next buses due at that stop. The number is 11 figures long, which isn't that easy to remember, so I had the idea of writing an applet for Symbian phones that would allow the user to store their most used stops and send a query with a couple of keystrokes. I sent Metro an email outlining what I planned and they responded by saying that the information was copyrighted and should only be used by 'approved applications'. *shrug*

I have been using a great palm application called Metro in berlin for years. Works a treat, wonder why it slipped under the radar?

Very weak sauce BVG. They never will release an app as it won't run on windows, like the crashtastic ticket machines.

ROFLMAO. Nice one.

As for the rest, I'll guess it's because public transport all over are being run by hypocrites who don't use their own services. If people start actually using all that scheduling information, they might start to notice that the schedules were written by sadists or incompetents, sometimes both. Doesn't help that every single transportation authority I've bothered to check out has big ties to... car dealerships, usually through relatives. This of course gives even more incentive to make sure the public isn't being served right.

The official Berlin Metro Subscription service. Only 30Euro a month to get the latest Berlin metro maps...

Cynical or what? Why else would they stop people downloading an app that promotes the use of the metro???

The problem here is that some IT manager has a small group of programmers who have been working on an app for years.

Now some punk comes and takes that away from him... He'll FUD the hell out of this to keep his cushy position.

I dare you guys to do a similar iPhone app for the London Underground. It won't take long for you to get slapped with the same stuff.

Even serving the PDF version of the Tube's map on another site is considered copyright violation. However, I wonder if BVG would strike a deal on said student; it is useful to them, after all.

I have to say having been to Berlin a couple of times that I don't hold out much hope of them being able to develop a half-way decent iPhone app, seeing as they can't even get their act together with their transport maps / timetable / platform signage / websites.

On the other hand, you can use your 'handy' underground, and you don't boil to death as you do in London.

London Underground seem to be restricting apps in a similar way, although only in terms of using the official tube map (must be downloaded) and not for service update / route planners.

Timing a train to a stop is not a COPYRIGHT!

Hahaha If it is then I can copyright the time every night I kiss a woman goodbye at 7pm.

every time someone does something these days somebody is ready to send in the legal team to claim the pound of flesh.

i think i will patent how to make a shit, so every time someone goes the bog they have to pay me !

@ Adair,

I don't think you've quite got that right. You are perfectly free to publish your own tide tables and maps, derived from your own data. If you want to put in a network of water level measurement devices around the UK and pay for your own hydrographic surveys, feel free to negotiate where the measurement devices can be located and pay for the regular data gathering from those devices. What the Admiralty object to is you making a profit from their expenditure.

Of course, this is in complete contrast to the position in the USA, where any work of the Federal Government and associated agencies is free and in the public domain (national security excepted), on the basis that it has already been paid for by the taxpayers. For once, I feel the Americans have got it right.

obviously its all becuase of the terrorists...

If they hand out the timetables themselves they can control what the terrorists have access too. eh somehow

But if these "hackers" start giving away or selling phone apps the terrorists will use them.. somehow

its all very technical you see.. people like us just wouldn't understand the danger we are really in

Dutch timetables aren't free, you can buy them. They do have a slightly sucky website.

Running on time however is still a problem, but they found a way to just cancel a train when it is delayed too much so that it won't register as delayed.

@Jim

"Remember this is not a freetard issue, the data has been paid for from the public purse so it belongs to the public."

So, where do I get my Chieftain? Or my Typhoon? 'cos I paid for them too.

I'm guessing you're a 'Merkin, yes? If that's the case, then you might not be aware that in the UK and, I suspect, in Germany and Holland too the public sector will often contract with the private sector to provide a service on a non-exclusive basis. In this scenario, the state gets the service cheaper than it would on an exclusive basis (thereby providing something that used to be called "best value" until even the Accentards and McKinseytards that drive government thinking in the UK realised what a misnomer this was). The quid pro quo is that the service provider then gets to make up the difference be reselling the service. The logic behind this approach is that if multiple independent entities are allowed to compete to provide the service it'll be provided (by some indeterminate magic) more efficiently than if there were a monopoly provider.

Most of these applications just use a web connection to download the latest info, parse the HTML and create a Cocoa touch interface to the data. There is no data being stored on the device AFAIK and it's hardly different that going to their website to get the info.

Odd. It used to be that only the presentation of information could be copyrighted, not the information itself. So as long as no part of their map drawing or typesetting of the Berlin Rail schecule was copied, copyright law should not even be an issue. Of course, it could be that German copyright law is more far-reaching.